Jump to content


Photo

Tires and tpi - does higher number mean better?


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Ol' Fart

Ol' Fart

    Uber Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 258 posts

Posted 22 June 2007 - 01:25 PM

For example, Vittoria boasts 120, 220 and 290 tpi (http://www.vittoria....dotto.asp?id=14):

Example of high TPI casing Example of low TPI casing

• more threads per length unit
• less rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• lower ply thickness

Results
• higher flexibility
• lower rolling resistance
• more comfort
• better road contact
• lower weight
• less threads per length
• more rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• higher ply thickness

Example of low TPI casing

• more threads per length unit
• less rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• lower ply thickness

Results
• lower flexibility
• higher rolling resistance
• less comfort
• lower road contact
• higher weight


Michelin's top tire stops at 127tpi which is more then half od Vittoria's top tire.

Can anyone shed some light on this matter?

#2 AaronFillion

AaronFillion

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 77 posts

Posted 23 June 2007 - 08:53 PM

For example, Vittoria boasts 120, 220 and 290 tpi (http://www.vittoria....dotto.asp?id=14):

Example of high TPI casing Example of low TPI casing

• more threads per length unit
• less rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• lower ply thickness

Results
• higher flexibility
• lower rolling resistance
• more comfort
• better road contact
• lower weight
• less threads per length
• more rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• higher ply thickness

Example of low TPI casing

• more threads per length unit
• less rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• lower ply thickness

Results
• lower flexibility
• higher rolling resistance
• less comfort
• lower road contact
• higher weight


Michelin's top tire stops at 127tpi which is more then half od Vittoria's top tire.

Can anyone shed some light on this matter?


All those qualities of high TPI are nice, but personally whenever I have ridden Vittoria's they feel like I am riding a flat tire.

And more importantly the Vittoria's have the WORST puncture resistance of any tire I have even used. As a result I got way too may flats with those tires, usually because a same fragment of stone or glass pierced the tire casing.

Michelin's resist punctures much better, however the Schwalbe Ultremo's and Stelvio's are even better when it comes to resisting punctures and they have a very similar feel to the Michelin's.

#3 COWBOY

COWBOY

    Uber Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 23 June 2007 - 11:47 PM

I have raced with Vitoria CX for years with no problems threads per square inch you can use as a quality measure. Higher threads per square inch means more supple tire with a stronger sidewall. Contrary to the other poster which indicated the tire he uses of 126 tpi. A lower tpi count means stiffer tire and less resiliant. Vitoria CX all the way! ;)

#4 AaronFillion

AaronFillion

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 77 posts

Posted 24 June 2007 - 08:00 AM

I have raced with Vitoria CX for years with no problems threads per square inch you can use as a quality measure. Higher threads per square inch means more supple tire with a stronger sidewall. Contrary to the other poster which indicated the tire he uses of 126 tpi. A lower tpi count means stiffer tire and less resiliant. Vitoria CX all the way! ;)


For me, the characteristics of the high TPI of the Vittoria tires are irrelevant. I didn't like the way the tires feel and got way too many flats.

Tires are a personal preference. The best thing to do is to experiment with different tires, then use the tires you feel most confident with.

#5 COWBOY

COWBOY

    Uber Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 24 June 2007 - 09:26 PM

[quote name='AaronFillion' date='Jun 24 2007, 08:00 AM' post='67924']
[quote name='COWBOY' post='67923' date='Jun 23 2007, 11:47 PM']
I have raced with Vitoria CX for years with no problems threads per square inch you can use as a quality measure. Higher threads per square inch means more supple tire with a stronger sidewall. Contrary to the other poster which indicated the tire he uses of 126 tpi. A lower tpi count means stiffer tire and less resiliant. Vitoria CX all the way! ;)
[/quote]

For me, the characteristics of the high TPI of the Vittoria tires are irrelevant. I didn't like the way the tires feel and got way too many flats.

Tires are a personal preference. The best thing to do is to experiment with different tires, then use the tires you feel most confident with.

That's great but for craps sake vittoria are one of the finest Tubs on the market, don't confuse the poor bastard!

#6 Big Daddy

Big Daddy

    Uber Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 305 posts

Posted 25 June 2007 - 08:15 AM

I have always found that Higher TPI made for a more comfortable ride. I personally have a bias against Michelen products I have tried several models including the high end pro race but always found them very stiff compared to other brands. As I rode a very stiff Aluminum bike for several years this has been a bit of a mythical search for me.

I personally have a preference for the Vredstien Fortezza Tri Comps thay have excelent feel and puncture resistance however I found that the life was not as long as some other brands of tires. however the comfort outweighs the life and by life I meant 3000-3500km or roughly a season of riding for me.

I have also used the Conti GP4000 and they have a similar feel with a longer life to the Vredstien.

I am currently on Bontrager tires which are made by Vittoria and although they have been alright they only have 1500km on them and they are already cut up and I will have to replace them soon and it will be with either Vredstiens or GP4000's which ever I can get a deal or cool colours in.

#7 Schwartz

Schwartz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

Posted 27 June 2007 - 10:19 PM

I've ridden Michelins and Vittoria's CX. The thread construction probably plays a role in comparing one tire's tpi with another's. I like the Vittoria's better at high psi (130-140) for racing and the Michelins better for puncture resistance. For all around riding I would choose the Michelins and for intense short races, the Vittorias. If you're less than about 160 lbs the Veloflex Paves are very nice.

#8 chump

chump

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 94 posts

Posted 28 June 2007 - 08:42 AM

I would have to agree about the Veloflex. My favourite tire of all time.

I am now running Pro Race2's from Michelin.

I hated the Vitorria tires, like Aarron I got WAY to many flats on them.

#9 shore

shore

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 56 posts

Posted 10 July 2007 - 11:41 PM

I've heard tonnes of great stuff about veloflex, and they should be good, they're all made by hand, mostly by the old Vittoria staff (after Vittoria moved to Asia)
Higher TPI will get you a more supple ride, but lay-up has a lot to do with it as well.
Always been a big fan of Hutchinson myself, really good puncture protection, and a decent ride, but mostly riding Vittoria (tubulars) these days.
Best tire I've had though, was some Argentinian company called Keirin, super smooth ride, ultra light, and fast, totally a race tire though, didn't get much more than 2000km out of them.

#10 Bigger Gear

Bigger Gear

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 104 posts

Posted 11 July 2007 - 06:23 PM

For example, Vittoria boasts 120, 220 and 290 tpi (http://www.vittoria....dotto.asp?id=14):

Example of high TPI casing Example of low TPI casing

• more threads per length unit
• less rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• lower ply thickness

Results
• higher flexibility
• lower rolling resistance
• more comfort
• better road contact
• lower weight
• less threads per length
• more rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• higher ply thickness

Example of low TPI casing

• more threads per length unit
• less rubber needed to fill the spaces among the threads
• lower ply thickness

Results
• lower flexibility
• higher rolling resistance
• less comfort
• lower road contact
• higher weight


Michelin's top tire stops at 127tpi which is more then half od Vittoria's top tire.

Can anyone shed some light on this matter?


Have a look at the following links, they talk about rolling resistance of clincher tires:

http://www.biketechr...esting_rev6.pdf
http://www.velonews....es/12493.0.html
http://www.rouesarti...le-1503651.html

In summary, three of the fastest clincher tires are the Deda Tre Giro d'Italia, followed by the Vittoria Open CX, and then the Michelin Pro2 Race. Latex tubes are also faster than butyl, and light butyl is faster than heavy butyl. Clinchers are faster than tubulars. Of course all of these tests are on smooth rollers and do not simulate a rough road. And frictional losses due to rolling resistance are still small compared to aerodynamic losses.

So yeah, if you want to be sure of going as fast as possible, get some Deda Tre with latex tubes going. But at the same time your risk of puncturing goes up a lot over say, Michelin Pro2 Race with latex. Me, I ride the relatively slow Conti GP4000.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users