DH Nationals Embarrassment..., Sore loser Danika Schroeter Options

[threshold]

This can be debated ad nauseum. And this is a good venue for discussion and dialog. But, a podium at Whistler mountain isn't. In the end, there are rules. You play the sport, you have to play by the rules.

That is not the place to register your complaint or disagreement. That is not an appropriate venue. Moreover, writing on your T Shirt in any way is completely inappropriate and violates UCI rules and podium guidelines for the Nationals.

The one image that remains with me over the Sale & Pelletier affair at Salt Lake was how they held their heads high when they received silver medals. There is a time and there is a place. The podium is neither.

There are lots of rules I don't agree with. There are lots of rules that others don't agree with. One rule (and his team's oversight) cost Floyd a bunch of time in the first TT at this year's tour. He didn't protest it, he overcame it.

While observing the event, I noticed that Danika did a 'cool-down' ride by doing laps of the finish area. She was the only athlete that did, all others I saw moved quickly out of the fenced area. I thought nothing of it at the time. On reflection given the podium incident, knowing that Michelle was following her and given this controversy and Danica's behavior, I now have new concerns and questions. Though Danica did clear the area before Michelle arrived, was she taking action to potentially interfere with her competitor?

I hope that isn't the case, and that there is no rule about hanging around the finish area. This newfound concern, however, only exists because of the podium demonstration. It is a clear and personal example of how one negative incident can begin to overshadow and provide negative explanations for other actions.

And now I am reminded of a race where a leader's jersey was forgotten, or was that someone else? If it was her, was that an honest mistake as we were told, or another bahavioral incident? If it wasn't, am I now linking all inappropriate behavior?

Danika's podium protest was pre-meditated and deliberate. She needs to take some time to really think about her own legacy and her goals.

The editor was right, why wouldn't the CCA think more broadly about this. Who are we kidding. If you were on the CCA World's selection committee, wouldn't it bother you that you might choose an athlete who may take and action that would embarrass you when they represent our country? How could you not consider it, even subconsciously?

Dave.

Well I think one thing is for sure, Ms Schoeter will never again get on a national team project.

[AaronFillion]

Was Michelle Dumaresq capable of winning the National DH Championship as a man, when she was a man?

[Mauro]

I can't win sh*t against the men so all I have to do is change my name to Maura and buy some ugly hoop earings so I can get my ass kicked by Merrill Collins?

[Thelonius the bi...]

Wow, this is a fascinating issue that has been plaguing sociologist (and doctors, lawyers, biologists etc.) for years.

I would argue that 'gender' is based purely the pyschological perception of the individual. That is, if a person feels like a girl/women then are a girl/women.

Sex on the other hand is much more thorny issue. As eluded to by threshold, sex is far from a XY vs. XX problem. The bottom line is that sex is a physical/physiological manifestation of many factors and is therefore a 'holistic' trait if you will. Barr bodies does not equal female. but it is possible to define 'male'/'female' largely by inspection of the individual (both broad physical features and hormonal/other features).

By both these criteria there is no question which sex/gender the national champion belongs to. Congratulations on her incredible ride, and her third title.

Her competitor and the CCA have only one option. Ms. Scoeter should give a full apology and recognize M[r]s. Dumaresq as the '100 % pure woman champ' or face a complete sanction. She should never race again, respect for your competitors is a fundamental tenet of all athletic endeavors, and Ms. Schoder clearly lacks this.

Perhaps more imporantly it shows how intolerance often lies just beneath the surface on contentious issues such as these. Are canadians as liberal as we all like to believe? Probably not.

[darktooth]

Not so long ago Cro-Magnons like Spunout & cadenceofsixty would be bemoaning that: women have the right to the vote, or can go work side by side with men instead of staying at home having kids or that "niggers" have the same rights as the rest of us white folks!! Thank god those days are over and we live in a country that does not tolerate bigotery.

I am actually defending women’s rights. I am all for women being able to race. According to your theory we wouldn’t have separate categories for men and women. We would only have one race category.

So think of Nationals only have one category for each age group. How many women do you think would race??? How many women would be national champions???

Plus I am not condoning what happened at the podium. That was hurtful and should have never happened. If the rider who got 1st wants to rider, let that rider, ride in the mens race.


Neither 1st rider or 2nd rider should be Womens National Champ, it should go to 3rd.

[johniep]

I would like to apologize to Michelle and to Danika for my actions. I am sorry for the embarrasment and hurt I caused to both of these women. I have many issues with CCA, but this was not the right forum to air them. I apologize to everyone that was offended.

John Starcevic

[D-Queued]

If you did what you said you did, then you need to do a lot more than post here anonymously.

For starters, I would recommend contacting Rob, the Editor at CC, and seek his counsel.

And before you criticize anyone that has commented on this thread, consider that we have both a reputable source with very clear pictures to refer to. It isn't April 1, so this is no joke.

If you did what you said you did, then you have conspired and acted to seriously damage someone's reputation as well as the sport itself.

If you did what you said you did, and if I were Dan, I might be loading my shotgun. And, I wouldn't be aiming it those that participated in this thread before your post.

Hopefully you can learn a little bit about going overboard and subjecting others to your causes.

Dave.

[Spunout]

So there are a bunch of men spouting off on this forum on a women's issue. What do women think about this?

[johniep]

I apologize.

[Green Like A Bik...]

I think Danika should never have done what she did, it was completely rude, disrespectful and hurtful.

I also think that males do have an environmental advantage compared to females. Interesting book, "The Frailty Myth" goes into detail as to why female participation and results are not the same as male. From first movement (i.e. learning to walk), female movement is restricted compared to male. In that sense, Michelle MAY have had an advantage.

However, there are lots of advantages and disadvantages - if one female grew up without supportive parents or the financial means to compete in sport and then decided once they were independant to start out, they are at a disadvantage compared to kids who grew up with encouragement, coaching and funds to buy equipment and compete all their life. Think of the difference during all of the years of physical development that the two situations have. Yet both compete under the same category.

So I think Michelle should be racing in the female category. This is an issue larger than simply sport - it is about accepting a new woman as a women, which means racing as a female. If competitors are upset that she has an advantage, I'd suggest they take a look at all the advantages that they have over others and then decide to cast the first stone.

[Editor]

befor you guys and gals start beaking off about something you know nothing about you should learn the facts.Danika nor her sponsers knew anything of the shirt.If you were there you would have seen that i, a male name:John Starcevic ran on stage and put the shirt on her.I caught her off Gaurd and told her to take off her jersey,when she Questioned me i told her to just do it.I basically betrayed the six years of trust that we had built up.She was extreamly embarrest and angry.I chose to use her to make my stand.it is pathetic how fast people will jump on someone with out knowing the facts.I dont know what it will take to regain her trust as of right now she is not talking to me.I put her in that situatioun and everyone who was there knows that.yes you have every right to be angry with ME but no one else.As far as the CCA is concerned learn the facts behind the Jersie befor you beak off,it was not evan her who complained.every one here is so quick to condem its crazy.as far as knowlage on Transgenders you read a quote and its the truth to you.What have you done on your own to find info on transgenders. I have gone to see Michelle do her speach on why she chos her path,I have talked to other transgenders with well over half believing what Michelle is doing is wrong.I have also Scedualed appointment and talked to other specialists on the subject most who said they nor anyone else could prove if a transgender had an advantage or a disadvantage.The CCA has not supported DH for a long time and unless your a puppet who has done 0 reserch on the subject these types of actions have nothing to do with the Damage the CCA has done to DH over the years.look into what it takes to get a DH racer to the worlds.And im sorry if i agree that it is silly to pay for a worlds jersey that does not evan say CANADA on it but has huge Tim Hortins all over it when 0$ of tim hortins money goes towards DH.The CCA knows Danika had nothing to do with it and that i had everything to do with it but has failed to mention it.I hope you are happy that after all the embarresment i put Danika threw you jumped all over her befor knowing the facts.

I received this response yesterday evening when I arrived home after travelling back from Whistler. Yes, I certainly did see a man scramble up on the stage and hand the jersey to Danika Schroeter. However, she pulled off her own jersey and put on the t-shirt she was handed. She was the athlete on the podium and has to ultimately take responsibility for her actions. She was also wandering around the area after the awards still wearing the t-shirt, so it did not appear to bother her too much to be wearing the t-shirt. I would be quite happy to talk to Danika and get her response to the situation (I did not get a chance at the awards), but I stand by my original feelings - the podium at the national championships is a totally inappropriate venue for expressing your opinion.

[darktooth]

But of course some of you think that you are smarter than all the doctors and lawyers out there. you just KNOW

You said that there is no advantage to being a woman who once was a man, well think about this:

In basketball, height is a huge advantage. It seems that in nature men are taller then women. So if a 6'10" Man was to become a woman, this person would have a huge advantage if they were allowed to compete in women’s basketball. So therefore it can be seen that starting as a man can have an advantage in sports. So therefore people who were men, shouldn’t be allowed to compete in women’s sports. They should compete in the men’s league.

[D-Queued]

As for your Shotgun comment, you to need to grow.

I was merely pointing out how incredibly angry Dan must be right now. While you may not have 'knocked her up' as is the customary father-daughter shotgun inference, you may well have 'knocked her off' the podium. Knowing how much time, effort and sacrifice Danika has committed if I were Dan I would be in a very uncomfortable state right now.

You are the one that needs to grow here. Your prejudice has driven you to completely inappropriate actions that have only served to hurt others. Danika did wear the short on the podium, however, and all your pleading may do little to resolve the damage done. Now, I don't have any idea if you did what you said you did, but if you did then yours was an act of prejudice; an act of hate. Conducting an interview campaign with other transgendered individuals does little to remove your bias.

Whether Danika knew what was written on the T-Shirt, Podium rules are very specific. I am sure that they are on-line if you care to look them up. But, I will do you the favor:
• All athletes who have placed on the podium must attend the awards ceremonies. Failure to do so will result in a fine and loss of award (including prize money)
• Riders must wear cycling apparel to the awards ceremony. Failure to do so will result in a fine and loss of award (including prize money)
• Riders cannot wear or bring hats, eyewear, water bottle, etc on the podium. Failure to do so will result in a fine and loss of award (including prize money)

These are pretty clear, and are included in the Technical Guide that is provided to every athlete.

Danika should not have taken off her jersey, nor should she have donned the T-shirt, any T-shirt while on the podium.

That there was a very negative message on that T-shirt regarding her competitor compounds the situation.

Danika was riding at an unfair disadvantage. Her competitor appears to be much heavier. In a downhill event, that would be hard to overcome. Finishing within a second of her competitor, Danika underscored her skill as an athlete. This is further supported by the fact that her time was faster than many of the Elite men.

One would think that her performance on the hill would be all the statement that was needed in this situation.

Dave.

[sedras]

If Danika was duped into this as suggested by the fellow who posted his admission of responsiblity, the least she could do is apologize to everyone affected and especially and emphatically to the woman targetted. I have not heard of an apology, hopefully I just missed it.
It's not acceptable for an adult standing on a national championship podium to display a hateful message. It's hard to believe that she simply agreed to wear a shirt without knowing what it said or what message it would send. And if even if she did, that does not absolve her of responsibility. She is responsible for what she displays on the podium. Imagine Floyd Landis agreeing to wear a shirt some yahoo acquiantance told him to wear--it wouldn't happen.

[Spider]

But of course some of you think that you are smarter than all the doctors and lawyers out there. you just KNOW

You said that there is no advantage to being a woman who once was a man, well think about this:

In basketball, height is a huge advantage. It seems that in nature men are taller then women. So if a 6'10" Man was to become a woman, this person would have a huge advantage if they were allowed to compete in women’s basketball. So therefore it can be seen that starting as a man can have an advantage in sports. So therefore people who were men, shouldn’t be allowed to compete in women’s sports. They should compete in the men’s league.

Your assertion assumes that women (by your definition, from birth) cannot be 6'10". It's rare for a woman to be that tall, but certainly not impossible. Looking at this situation, there are comments on the fact that Michelle is larger and heavier than her competition (which could lead to a perceived unfair advantage for Michelle), but her size and height are certainly not out of the realm of possibility in the normal distribution of the female gender.