Sign In
Register
Help
Anyone who gets paid more than me to read this garbage has no life.
Anyone who gets paid less than me is a loser.
Why does Symmetrics keep saying "pro"?
MultiQuote#34 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 29 October 2004 - 07:25 PM
Guest, on Oct 29 2004, 12:13 PM, said:
if you are a lawyer and you get paid for what you do are you a PRO or an AMATEUR? I haven't met any lawyers, doctors or other professionals in this world that say "Hi I am joe blow and I am an amateur lawyer." Give me a break on all this crap about UCI defintions. If Symmetrics is paying their riders they ARE PROS. Last I heard every rider on the team was getting paid well. So is HealthNet PRO or AM? What about Colavita? How about Webcor?
Here is my question, why does everyone keep trying to pick apart one of the best things for Canadian cycling?
Funny how you pick apart the team yet you took enough time to read all of the diaries with these references in them. Hmm
Go complain somewhere else. For me I am just happy someone is dumping hundreds of thousands into my sport that I love. Lets put Canada on the map.
Here is my question, why does everyone keep trying to pick apart one of the best things for Canadian cycling?
Funny how you pick apart the team yet you took enough time to read all of the diaries with these references in them. Hmm
Go complain somewhere else. For me I am just happy someone is dumping hundreds of thousands into my sport that I love. Lets put Canada on the map.
Maybe some day Symmetrics will put enough money into a team some day and the guys will actually make a living. I don't care who you are @ 15-20k per yr this is not a living, lets not kid ourselves. All it amounts to is an allowance, but at ;east they get to ride their bikes. I suppose if you have no other prospect I would assume it looks inviting. The trick will be for Symmetrics to keep talent in the pool with loosing the riders to deeper pockets?
#35 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 29 October 2004 - 09:17 PM
15k isn't much for most, but don't forget, guys like cooper and fairall are barely legal to drink. getting paid to ride a bike and travel the continent isn't too bad. probably will learn more that way than going to college and getting ripped every night.
#36 Guest_reality check_*
Posted 29 October 2004 - 11:00 PM
just what do you guys think pro teams in north america pay their riders?
do you guys really think that most "pro riders" in north america are paid a decent wage? get real. how many guys in north america do you honestly think are making more than 40K per year in salary from their respective teams? and just what do you think a top rider's salary in north america is?
here's a reality check for you. john wordin created a temporary and superficial spike in racer wages in north america. he had henk vogels on a 125K per year contract in 2000. but he never paid vogels what the contract said. that contract, and mercury's subsequent meteoric rise created a spike in wages--most of which were not paid--and probably created a market fluctuation that ended the SATURN team. because that team actually paid its contracts. Gord Fraser, reportedly, signed a 250K per year contract to stay with mercury. this was only because he had enough UCI pts. to be getting offers from Europe. so, wordin had to match offers to keep him. He never paid gord what his contract said. nor, of course, we all know this, did he pay anyone what their contracts said.
so, prior to vogels, a top rider on a NA team made about 70-80K USD per year. those guys were FRANK MC CORMACK and GORD FRASER.
at any given time (in history) you have less then 5 guys in this wage bracket--in North America. As a result of wordin's antics Saturn had to pay Horner 100K, and reportedly, Dionne signed for 60K. That lasted 1 yr.
Now, we're in a transitional period in pro cycling. Navigators is the top team. And they have historically had riders on contracts for $0.00 per year. not all mind you, but the younger guys, most guys on that team are paid. and this year and maybe last year i wouldn't be surprised if all guys were paid.
webcor, 2 guys are paid -> dionne and horner. period. horner gets probably less than 50k from webcor, and he had some wierd deal w/ SATURN that was for 2yrs. but, again rumor has it, Satrun found a loop hole in that contract and ceased payments. So, although horner, should have, in theory, been double dipping, he got flicked.
Healthnet, has 3-4 riders who are paid well. then 2-4 paid, probaby around the same as what you bozos here are claiming RANDELL and the Symmetrics guys get paid. Finally they have some guys on 4-5K per yr. and some guys on NOTHING. NADA. ZIP.
so, end of reality check, pay scales for pros in north america:
70K + -> 5 guys
40 - 70K -> 10 guys
20-40K -> 15 guys
10-20K -> 15 guys
0 - 15K -> everyone else
so pro riders making a real wage in North America, less than 30 guys. do the math how many pro teams are there now in North America? 13, 15, more? how many pro riders then ... 130 to 150 or so? how many making a real wage ? maybe 30. and i think that is a pretty optimistic guess.
Does this mean they aren't pro? well, not in my books. this is a representation of the market economy, cycling is still not a top tier sport here, and the reality is that most riders are pro in name only, not i what they take home in wages.
you don't make your decision on what team to ride for based on what they will pay you, you make it based on the quality of the program, and the opportunities that team will provide for you to puddle jump.
you ass hats shouldn't diss symmetrics and jetfuel for what you think they are and arem't paying their riders, because it ain't so much better south of the border. if any of the guys on those teams were good enough to be commanding the phuking wages you guys are harping on about here, they'd be on Navigators, Collavita Bolla or Healthnet making that bank.
* this analysis doesn't include USPS, who are more driven my european market dynamics
** this analysis doesn't consider what any of these 'so-called' pros might make in prize money in a year.
do you guys really think that most "pro riders" in north america are paid a decent wage? get real. how many guys in north america do you honestly think are making more than 40K per year in salary from their respective teams? and just what do you think a top rider's salary in north america is?
here's a reality check for you. john wordin created a temporary and superficial spike in racer wages in north america. he had henk vogels on a 125K per year contract in 2000. but he never paid vogels what the contract said. that contract, and mercury's subsequent meteoric rise created a spike in wages--most of which were not paid--and probably created a market fluctuation that ended the SATURN team. because that team actually paid its contracts. Gord Fraser, reportedly, signed a 250K per year contract to stay with mercury. this was only because he had enough UCI pts. to be getting offers from Europe. so, wordin had to match offers to keep him. He never paid gord what his contract said. nor, of course, we all know this, did he pay anyone what their contracts said.
so, prior to vogels, a top rider on a NA team made about 70-80K USD per year. those guys were FRANK MC CORMACK and GORD FRASER.
at any given time (in history) you have less then 5 guys in this wage bracket--in North America. As a result of wordin's antics Saturn had to pay Horner 100K, and reportedly, Dionne signed for 60K. That lasted 1 yr.
Now, we're in a transitional period in pro cycling. Navigators is the top team. And they have historically had riders on contracts for $0.00 per year. not all mind you, but the younger guys, most guys on that team are paid. and this year and maybe last year i wouldn't be surprised if all guys were paid.
webcor, 2 guys are paid -> dionne and horner. period. horner gets probably less than 50k from webcor, and he had some wierd deal w/ SATURN that was for 2yrs. but, again rumor has it, Satrun found a loop hole in that contract and ceased payments. So, although horner, should have, in theory, been double dipping, he got flicked.
Healthnet, has 3-4 riders who are paid well. then 2-4 paid, probaby around the same as what you bozos here are claiming RANDELL and the Symmetrics guys get paid. Finally they have some guys on 4-5K per yr. and some guys on NOTHING. NADA. ZIP.
so, end of reality check, pay scales for pros in north america:
70K + -> 5 guys
40 - 70K -> 10 guys
20-40K -> 15 guys
10-20K -> 15 guys
0 - 15K -> everyone else
so pro riders making a real wage in North America, less than 30 guys. do the math how many pro teams are there now in North America? 13, 15, more? how many pro riders then ... 130 to 150 or so? how many making a real wage ? maybe 30. and i think that is a pretty optimistic guess.
Does this mean they aren't pro? well, not in my books. this is a representation of the market economy, cycling is still not a top tier sport here, and the reality is that most riders are pro in name only, not i what they take home in wages.
you don't make your decision on what team to ride for based on what they will pay you, you make it based on the quality of the program, and the opportunities that team will provide for you to puddle jump.
you ass hats shouldn't diss symmetrics and jetfuel for what you think they are and arem't paying their riders, because it ain't so much better south of the border. if any of the guys on those teams were good enough to be commanding the phuking wages you guys are harping on about here, they'd be on Navigators, Collavita Bolla or Healthnet making that bank.
* this analysis doesn't include USPS, who are more driven my european market dynamics
** this analysis doesn't consider what any of these 'so-called' pros might make in prize money in a year.
#37 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 29 October 2004 - 11:08 PM
reality check, on Oct 30 2004, 12:00 AM, said:
just what do you guys think pro teams in north america pay their riders?
do you guys really think that most "pro riders" in north america are paid a decent wage? get real. how many guys in north america do you honestly think are making more than 40K per year in salary from their respective teams? and just what do you think a top rider's salary in north america is?
here's a reality check for you. john wordin created a temporary and superficial spike in racer wages in north america. he had henk vogels on a 125K per year contract in 2000. but he never paid vogels what the contract said. that contract, and mercury's subsequent meteoric rise created a spike in wages--most of which were not paid--and probably created a market fluctuation that ended the SATURN team. because that team actually paid its contracts. Gord Fraser, reportedly, signed a 250K per year contract to stay with mercury. this was only because he had enough UCI pts. to be getting offers from Europe. so, wordin had to match offers to keep him. He never paid gord what his contract said. nor, of course, we all know this, did he pay anyone what their contracts said.
so, prior to vogels, a top rider on a NA team made about 70-80K USD per year. those guys were FRANK MC CORMACK and GORD FRASER.
at any given time (in history) you have less then 5 guys in this wage bracket--in North America. As a result of wordin's antics Saturn had to pay Horner 100K, and reportedly, Dionne signed for 60K. That lasted 1 yr.
Now, we're in a transitional period in pro cycling. Navigators is the top team. And they have historically had riders on contracts for $0.00 per year. not all mind you, but the younger guys, most guys on that team are paid. and this year and maybe last year i wouldn't be surprised if all guys were paid.
webcor, 2 guys are paid -> dionne and horner. period. horner gets probably less than 50k from webcor, and he had some wierd deal w/ SATURN that was for 2yrs. but, again rumor has it, Satrun found a loop hole in that contract and ceased payments. So, although horner, should have, in theory, been double dipping, he got flicked.
Healthnet, has 3-4 riders who are paid well. then 2-4 paid, probaby around the same as what you bozos here are claiming RANDELL and the Symmetrics guys get paid. Finally they have some guys on 4-5K per yr. and some guys on NOTHING. NADA. ZIP.
so, end of reality check, pay scales for pros in north america:
70K + -> 5 guys
40 - 70K -> 10 guys
20-40K -> 15 guys
10-20K -> 15 guys
0 - 15K -> everyone else
so pro riders making a real wage in North America, less than 30 guys. do the math how many pro teams are there now in North America? 13, 15, more? how many pro riders then ... 130 to 150 or so? how many making a real wage ? maybe 30. and i think that is a pretty optimistic guess.
Does this mean they aren't pro? well, not in my books. this is a representation of the market economy, cycling is still not a top tier sport here, and the reality is that most riders are pro in name only, not i what they take home in wages.
you don't make your decision on what team to ride for based on what they will pay you, you make it based on the quality of the program, and the opportunities that team will provide for you to puddle jump.
you ass hats shouldn't diss symmetrics and jetfuel for what you think they are and arem't paying their riders, because it ain't so much better south of the border. if any of the guys on those teams were good enough to be commanding the phuking wages you guys are harping on about here, they'd be on Navigators, Collavita Bolla or Healthnet making that bank.
* this analysis doesn't include USPS, who are more driven my european market dynamics
** this analysis doesn't consider what any of these 'so-called' pros might make in prize money in a year.
do you guys really think that most "pro riders" in north america are paid a decent wage? get real. how many guys in north america do you honestly think are making more than 40K per year in salary from their respective teams? and just what do you think a top rider's salary in north america is?
here's a reality check for you. john wordin created a temporary and superficial spike in racer wages in north america. he had henk vogels on a 125K per year contract in 2000. but he never paid vogels what the contract said. that contract, and mercury's subsequent meteoric rise created a spike in wages--most of which were not paid--and probably created a market fluctuation that ended the SATURN team. because that team actually paid its contracts. Gord Fraser, reportedly, signed a 250K per year contract to stay with mercury. this was only because he had enough UCI pts. to be getting offers from Europe. so, wordin had to match offers to keep him. He never paid gord what his contract said. nor, of course, we all know this, did he pay anyone what their contracts said.
so, prior to vogels, a top rider on a NA team made about 70-80K USD per year. those guys were FRANK MC CORMACK and GORD FRASER.
at any given time (in history) you have less then 5 guys in this wage bracket--in North America. As a result of wordin's antics Saturn had to pay Horner 100K, and reportedly, Dionne signed for 60K. That lasted 1 yr.
Now, we're in a transitional period in pro cycling. Navigators is the top team. And they have historically had riders on contracts for $0.00 per year. not all mind you, but the younger guys, most guys on that team are paid. and this year and maybe last year i wouldn't be surprised if all guys were paid.
webcor, 2 guys are paid -> dionne and horner. period. horner gets probably less than 50k from webcor, and he had some wierd deal w/ SATURN that was for 2yrs. but, again rumor has it, Satrun found a loop hole in that contract and ceased payments. So, although horner, should have, in theory, been double dipping, he got flicked.
Healthnet, has 3-4 riders who are paid well. then 2-4 paid, probaby around the same as what you bozos here are claiming RANDELL and the Symmetrics guys get paid. Finally they have some guys on 4-5K per yr. and some guys on NOTHING. NADA. ZIP.
so, end of reality check, pay scales for pros in north america:
70K + -> 5 guys
40 - 70K -> 10 guys
20-40K -> 15 guys
10-20K -> 15 guys
0 - 15K -> everyone else
so pro riders making a real wage in North America, less than 30 guys. do the math how many pro teams are there now in North America? 13, 15, more? how many pro riders then ... 130 to 150 or so? how many making a real wage ? maybe 30. and i think that is a pretty optimistic guess.
Does this mean they aren't pro? well, not in my books. this is a representation of the market economy, cycling is still not a top tier sport here, and the reality is that most riders are pro in name only, not i what they take home in wages.
you don't make your decision on what team to ride for based on what they will pay you, you make it based on the quality of the program, and the opportunities that team will provide for you to puddle jump.
you ass hats shouldn't diss symmetrics and jetfuel for what you think they are and arem't paying their riders, because it ain't so much better south of the border. if any of the guys on those teams were good enough to be commanding the phuking wages you guys are harping on about here, they'd be on Navigators, Collavita Bolla or Healthnet making that bank.
* this analysis doesn't include USPS, who are more driven my european market dynamics
** this analysis doesn't consider what any of these 'so-called' pros might make in prize money in a year.
without a doubt this has to be the best post I have read on this chat board. He could not be more clear. FYI in velo news tour de france edition they list the teams in the tour with their budgets, lowest 3.2 million highest was 10.5 million. With 20-25 riders per team I bet some of the riders on pro teams in europe don't make all that much in base salary
once again, great job on the post.
#39 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 30 October 2004 - 12:23 AM
No way in hell Cooper, or some of the other younger guys are making 15k. The only young guy probably making 15k is Cam. Svein, Cory, Jacob are probably making the most. I hear through the grapevine that Symmetrics is talking with Eric Wolberg.
#40 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 30 October 2004 - 12:39 AM
reality check, on Oct 30 2004, 12:00 AM, said:
just what do you guys think pro teams in north america pay their riders?
do you guys really think that most "pro riders" in north america are paid a decent wage? get real. how many guys in north america do you honestly think are making more than 40K per year in salary from their respective teams? and just what do you think a top rider's salary in north america is?
here's a reality check for you. john wordin created a temporary and superficial spike in racer wages in north america. he had henk vogels on a 125K per year contract in 2000. but he never paid vogels what the contract said. that contract, and mercury's subsequent meteoric rise created a spike in wages--most of which were not paid--and probably created a market fluctuation that ended the SATURN team. because that team actually paid its contracts. Gord Fraser, reportedly, signed a 250K per year contract to stay with mercury. this was only because he had enough UCI pts. to be getting offers from Europe. so, wordin had to match offers to keep him. He never paid gord what his contract said. nor, of course, we all know this, did he pay anyone what their contracts said.
so, prior to vogels, a top rider on a NA team made about 70-80K USD per year. those guys were FRANK MC CORMACK and GORD FRASER.
at any given time (in history) you have less then 5 guys in this wage bracket--in North America. As a result of wordin's antics Saturn had to pay Horner 100K, and reportedly, Dionne signed for 60K. That lasted 1 yr.
Now, we're in a transitional period in pro cycling. Navigators is the top team. And they have historically had riders on contracts for $0.00 per year. not all mind you, but the younger guys, most guys on that team are paid. and this year and maybe last year i wouldn't be surprised if all guys were paid.
webcor, 2 guys are paid -> dionne and horner. period. horner gets probably less than 50k from webcor, and he had some wierd deal w/ SATURN that was for 2yrs. but, again rumor has it, Satrun found a loop hole in that contract and ceased payments. So, although horner, should have, in theory, been double dipping, he got flicked.
Healthnet, has 3-4 riders who are paid well. then 2-4 paid, probaby around the same as what you bozos here are claiming RANDELL and the Symmetrics guys get paid. Finally they have some guys on 4-5K per yr. and some guys on NOTHING. NADA. ZIP.
so, end of reality check, pay scales for pros in north america:
70K + -> 5 guys
40 - 70K -> 10 guys
20-40K -> 15 guys
10-20K -> 15 guys
0 - 15K -> everyone else
so pro riders making a real wage in North America, less than 30 guys. do the math how many pro teams are there now in North America? 13, 15, more? how many pro riders then ... 130 to 150 or so? how many making a real wage ? maybe 30. and i think that is a pretty optimistic guess.
Does this mean they aren't pro? well, not in my books. this is a representation of the market economy, cycling is still not a top tier sport here, and the reality is that most riders are pro in name only, not i what they take home in wages.
you don't make your decision on what team to ride for based on what they will pay you, you make it based on the quality of the program, and the opportunities that team will provide for you to puddle jump.
you ass hats shouldn't diss symmetrics and jetfuel for what you think they are and arem't paying their riders, because it ain't so much better south of the border. if any of the guys on those teams were good enough to be commanding the phuking wages you guys are harping on about here, they'd be on Navigators, Collavita Bolla or Healthnet making that bank.
* this analysis doesn't include USPS, who are more driven my european market dynamics
** this analysis doesn't consider what any of these 'so-called' pros might make in prize money in a year.
do you guys really think that most "pro riders" in north america are paid a decent wage? get real. how many guys in north america do you honestly think are making more than 40K per year in salary from their respective teams? and just what do you think a top rider's salary in north america is?
here's a reality check for you. john wordin created a temporary and superficial spike in racer wages in north america. he had henk vogels on a 125K per year contract in 2000. but he never paid vogels what the contract said. that contract, and mercury's subsequent meteoric rise created a spike in wages--most of which were not paid--and probably created a market fluctuation that ended the SATURN team. because that team actually paid its contracts. Gord Fraser, reportedly, signed a 250K per year contract to stay with mercury. this was only because he had enough UCI pts. to be getting offers from Europe. so, wordin had to match offers to keep him. He never paid gord what his contract said. nor, of course, we all know this, did he pay anyone what their contracts said.
so, prior to vogels, a top rider on a NA team made about 70-80K USD per year. those guys were FRANK MC CORMACK and GORD FRASER.
at any given time (in history) you have less then 5 guys in this wage bracket--in North America. As a result of wordin's antics Saturn had to pay Horner 100K, and reportedly, Dionne signed for 60K. That lasted 1 yr.
Now, we're in a transitional period in pro cycling. Navigators is the top team. And they have historically had riders on contracts for $0.00 per year. not all mind you, but the younger guys, most guys on that team are paid. and this year and maybe last year i wouldn't be surprised if all guys were paid.
webcor, 2 guys are paid -> dionne and horner. period. horner gets probably less than 50k from webcor, and he had some wierd deal w/ SATURN that was for 2yrs. but, again rumor has it, Satrun found a loop hole in that contract and ceased payments. So, although horner, should have, in theory, been double dipping, he got flicked.
Healthnet, has 3-4 riders who are paid well. then 2-4 paid, probaby around the same as what you bozos here are claiming RANDELL and the Symmetrics guys get paid. Finally they have some guys on 4-5K per yr. and some guys on NOTHING. NADA. ZIP.
so, end of reality check, pay scales for pros in north america:
70K + -> 5 guys
40 - 70K -> 10 guys
20-40K -> 15 guys
10-20K -> 15 guys
0 - 15K -> everyone else
so pro riders making a real wage in North America, less than 30 guys. do the math how many pro teams are there now in North America? 13, 15, more? how many pro riders then ... 130 to 150 or so? how many making a real wage ? maybe 30. and i think that is a pretty optimistic guess.
Does this mean they aren't pro? well, not in my books. this is a representation of the market economy, cycling is still not a top tier sport here, and the reality is that most riders are pro in name only, not i what they take home in wages.
you don't make your decision on what team to ride for based on what they will pay you, you make it based on the quality of the program, and the opportunities that team will provide for you to puddle jump.
you ass hats shouldn't diss symmetrics and jetfuel for what you think they are and arem't paying their riders, because it ain't so much better south of the border. if any of the guys on those teams were good enough to be commanding the phuking wages you guys are harping on about here, they'd be on Navigators, Collavita Bolla or Healthnet making that bank.
* this analysis doesn't include USPS, who are more driven my european market dynamics
** this analysis doesn't consider what any of these 'so-called' pros might make in prize money in a year.
Hey ass head. If you want to promote your screwed up rational for paying riders minimum wage then go join Gordon Campbels crew he loves to tell stories of creating jobs and opportunities. I can't wait till Lorne Mayencourt (S**t head MLA in BC ) starts telling the RCMP to handout WALMART job applications to squeechie kids. I am sure the RCMP have lots of respect for this prick!! I digress....
When you rant about the pro teams making less than 40 k your right that's because there's lots of guys willing to ride for nothing and it brings down the bench mark for the whole f??in sport.
FYI a division 2 rider a real pro team makes 40,000 Euro per yr.
Big FN Westy
#41 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 30 October 2004 - 12:59 AM
Guest, on Oct 29 2004, 02:08 PM, said:
Do the math- Symmetrics must pay ok.
Base salary on Prime Alliance was 12grand US. Swein seems happy with Symmetrics. Erker is leaving seasilver for them- probably to rid himself the stress of running the team- it paid him a living wage, so Symmetrics must be doing the same.
Base salary on Prime Alliance was 12grand US. Swein seems happy with Symmetrics. Erker is leaving seasilver for them- probably to rid himself the stress of running the team- it paid him a living wage, so Symmetrics must be doing the same.
Svein hated being Horner's bitch and was sick of cycling culture and had, for all intents and purposes, quit the sport. Remember he joined Symmetrics when they were still basically a local team, part-time, and he certainly didn't join because they promised him a paycheck next year. He joined because he's still a young guy and enjoys racing and knows some of the guys on the team.
The ironic fact the team is evolving into something more professional is something I suspect Svein is taking a wait and see approach on. I'm not at all convinced that he wants to go into a Div 3 or 2 slog again. He doesn't like the lifestyle. He only ever liked riding his bike, nothing more.
"Do the math"? You didn't give any. Just more speculation.
Everyone should read Reality Check's post. One of the most informed I've ever seen on this site.
#43 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 30 October 2004 - 11:40 AM
Webster defines pro as:
Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: pr&-'fesh-n&l, -'fe-sh&-n&l
Function: adjective
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>
- pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb
That is it. No arguing. That is the definition.
you guys that keep hammering on this are clowns. There is a counter point to every point you guys make in trying to bring down YOUR canadian teams. Keep it up. You are only making yourself look bad (and feel bad).
Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: pr&-'fesh-n&l, -'fe-sh&-n&l
Function: adjective
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>
- pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb
That is it. No arguing. That is the definition.
you guys that keep hammering on this are clowns. There is a counter point to every point you guys make in trying to bring down YOUR canadian teams. Keep it up. You are only making yourself look bad (and feel bad).
#44 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 30 October 2004 - 12:10 PM
Guest, on Oct 30 2004, 12:40 PM, said:
Webster defines pro as:
Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: pr&-'fesh-n&l, -'fe-sh&-n&l
Function: adjective
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>
- pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb
That is it. No arguing. That is the definition.
you guys that keep hammering on this are clowns. There is a counter point to every point you guys make in trying to bring down YOUR canadian teams. Keep it up. You are only making yourself look bad (and feel bad).
Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: pr&-'fesh-n&l, -'fe-sh&-n&l
Function: adjective
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>
- pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb
That is it. No arguing. That is the definition.
you guys that keep hammering on this are clowns. There is a counter point to every point you guys make in trying to bring down YOUR canadian teams. Keep it up. You are only making yourself look bad (and feel bad).
i don't think the majority of us are trying to 'bring down' our canadian teams! What's wrong with talking about this? For those who have never been a 'pro' or close to it, they are trying to understand what it means to be 'pro'. Or what defines a 'pro'.
#45 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 30 October 2004 - 02:16 PM
Perhaps the definition for a team such as Symmetrics would be "semi-pro". This definition seems to work for other sports...baseball for one. It would certainly relate the situation of those riders better, especially for people outside the sport.